Newbie question

I uploaded a piano track but after reading through the knowledge base I realise I didn’t include a count in. What’s the easiest way to re do the upload with a click added, without losing the comments and downloads it’s had?

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I think the general rule is that a count in is desirable but not compulsary. Nobody`s going to single you out as you`re in good company :D

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Don't worry about it for this track, but it does help if you add it to future tracks :)

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Just a personal note here but I love music that doesn't have a count, anything that drifts with indeterminate pauses and speed changes - the problem is you need a very clever musician to add to it. Obviously it won't work for every genre.

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Personally I have no real problem when the count in is missing. What bugs me more is when the HDs don`t conform to the corresponding tracks, i.e. missing some bars at the beginning.

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I'm sure this happens a lot when musicians put their own spin on a remix that may involve alterations to original timing, mixing and construction. There comes a point when you just think "I hope this will do" :D

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Trust me, count in is the best method to ensure accurate positioning. Relying on the track length can have problems. Especially when more people are involved with the tracks.

Nothing beats a good clean count-in signal, which has not been compressed, equalized etc. My experience at least :)

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Shamika, you can have a track that has fluid tempo changes, but a count in at the beginning does not have to be suitable for the whole track, but it is very VERY useful to align single HD tracks, especially those that don't use a click track for the whole song. It is basically just a marker for alignment. You assume that if the click at the start is exactly aligned, the rest will also.

Id does not have to be a click, it can be any sound but the good thing about a click is that it has a nice shape for aligning.

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The count-in is i.m.h.o. not needed. There only a few situations where it plays a role:
1/ you want to start playing very early. Example 1,2,3,4, Go. But most DAW's gives you an option to add a count in automatically that is not recorded.
2/ it can help to check your time signature and tempo, but only at the start.
3/ Participants post a mix and isolated track of their contribution (Stem). Then it helps to line up the beginning.
It is extremely rare, nobody does it on WikiLoops, but would be great for those of us proficient at mixing. You can control volume and EQ of contributions.

Please post your stem and a mix.

Additionally. Say there is Drums, Bass and someone added Guitar or Sax, but it plays all the time throughout. Maybe adding something would be an opportunity in dropping out one of these instruments to add a section or call and response. The stem of Guitar or Sax in this example could be cut or mixed quieter to make room for the part I'd want to add. Or the guitar occupies too much of the low end to be able to add a bass that can be heard. So EQ can help. Or crashes sizzle too much for audible vocals. This is Pro stuff to make tracks more finished.

I've wanted to add a short drum roll or Intro sometimes, but then there is the count-in. Would need to remove it.

While I'm at it: we are not recording on wax platters, so you can record a comfortable 5-6 minutes or more - You are not constrained to 3 minutes that fits on a wax platter to press a 78 rpm Vinyl record. Likewise make it longer than a tic-Tac video.

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@ ulfberth

The Count In/ Click Beat:

Alot of times it isnt about following tempo.

Rather count ins are more times used for aligning tracks during mixdown. There is nothing worse then wanting to remix a track and the tracks dont align. Very frustrating. Mixing is considered as important as playing here. People practice it. Count ins especially click tracks at the beginning are a godsend.
Some Daws auto clip the track and without the clicks..its a good amount of work getting the persons isolated track aligned especially if everything comes in all at once.

There are some musicians here who spend alot of time building tracks and they are quite complex. When you have 6 or more instruments, everyone uploads their isolated part. If one persons track doesnt align for whatever reason , it has to be done manually and its just a pain.The click makes alignment a snap .


Heres some tracks that the mixdown was a huge deal due to alot of different players and remixing their isolated performances:

[wl]45141[/wl]
We are lucky to have have the Herring King Band. They do complete albums as a band with wikiloops members guest appearing. Alot of work goes into the tracks and alignment during mixdown is a basic thing.Its no small project and the tracks are assembled and arranged very methodically and with skill.

My point is when tracks become very complex , those clicks or alignment markers help tremendously. As you can hear there is ALOT going on.Everyone did their part then also uploaded their isolated track for the final mix.That process is time consuming and getting someones track to align manually can be a nightmare as you have to zoom into the waveform and eyeball a point commen to all the other tracks and then shift the misaligned track to match that point.Being off .002 milliseconds and it wont sound right and you get phase or timing problems.
[wl]259054[/wl]
I refer you to this thread which explains the use of click count ins for alignment:
https://www.wikiloops.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=1049
If you want to add a drum roll where the count in is ...just remove it and add .
You dont HAVE to use clicks and you can edit them out if you wish but if you really have a great performance and the track is building nicely Id put a maybe a low volume click at the beginning so when its remixed it makes it easy.

Im rather tired at the moment and am having trouble understanding your EQ examples point but again its past my bedtime so ill refer you to this:

If you have harsh cymbals a small EQ drop at 4k tames them

Likewise 2.3khz is another EQ band to drop to make things "smooth".

250hz and a small -2 db drop in that area cleans mixmud and built up sludgy frequencies from acoustic, electric and bass. Thats the area alot of lowend gets icky. Lo Mid Frequencies overlap in that area.

Add to that a Hi Pass filter at 40 HZ and block all frequencies below 40 and you have a crystal clear track in the making.

Heres some threads to help:

Ugly EQ Frequencies
https://www.wikiloops.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=2536

Super Duper EQ Cheat Sheet for Everything
https://www.wikiloops.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=1001

Key EQ Frequencies for Bass
https://www.wikiloops.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=3693

Key EQ frequencies to get mixes to come thru cell phone speakers.
https://www.wikiloops.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=3635

Sorry just tired and Im not understanding your last half. Hope that helps.Feel free to add to those threads.

Happy jamming

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No disagreement. Your points are totally valid.
Count-in is useful if individual stems are offered and used for a multi track mix.
90% of contributions on WikiLoops are not done like that.
"Remixes" are not separated and so there is no real opportunity to do serious work beyond just listening to what is essentially a demo/sketch.
Maybe I should reverse myself to point out that if a contributor wants to be offering the track to be used in a final mix then put in the count-in for sure and upload your individual stem as a single track as well.

I am hoping that can happen.

The Original Question here "Chrysalis" by Sandy Stewart is a good example.
Shiihs added a track (very impressive add I think) - instrument enters 10 seconds in. Here is where a count in would be very useful. Still only useful if the contributions are taken further. In this case the combination uploaded as a "Remix" can help to sort it out if one wants to work with the tracks - which I do want to attempt.
Shiihs contribution has no distinct attack to the notes which will make it more difficult to identify a synch. So I agree a count-in would have been a good thing.

I'm glad my view that most of the time "the count-in has no function" has helped to highlight this issue. If you want the piece of music to have a life beyond your contribution - put in the count-in !

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I’ve played on other sites where count ins were pretty much mandatory. People still screwed up the timing. This is an opportunity to learn more about your DAW. Make your own count in. Or not. Have fun.

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