'My latest experiences with AI'

A few days ago, Richard wrote: "I would rather suggest opening a thread like 'My latest experiences with AI' on the forum, because we are all obviously eager to see where all of this is going to lead us."

Here are my last three experiences with AI on the forum:

1. The first song, posted on September 9, 2026
TUELO: https://www.wikiloops.com/backingtrack-jam-341751
This is a composition where I wrote the music and marmotte did the lyrics and vocals. First, I downloaded my track from WikiLoops to my computer into Reaper. I modified it using my own voice as best as I could (those who implied that I had modified marmotte's voice are mistaken; it’s easy to check by comparing the two tracks)! Then, I wrote lyrics (so that Suno could follow along). In short, I transferred everything into Suno (text and music) and, after some trial and error, I selected stems downloaded from Suno and brought them back into Reaper. I added a few guitar notes and remixed the whole thing with Ozone11. Finally, I uploaded it to WikiLoops, specifying that I used AI. In the heat of the moment during those first few days, I received nothing but kind words and collaborations from other musicians, without being in the least bit informed that some people were against the use of AI.

2. The second song, posted on September 12, 2026
À PEINE LEVÉ: https://www.wikiloops.com/backingtrack-jam-341831
This is a 100% human composition of my own (lyrics and music). I transferred it into Suno to get better quality stems than my initial recording (made about 15 years ago). I kept the vocals and guitars reproduced by Suno (which are exactly in the spirit of my composition; easy to verify, as I had left a link to a video). The whole thing was then put into Reaper and, using the cut-copy-paste function, I stretched the tracks to create more space for future solos. In the HD section, I uploaded a track without drums and bass (and by the way, I did get some collaborations).
In short, the comments were positive, and bassists and a drummer collaborated. At that point, nobody informed me that AI was frowned upon on WikiLoops. JyPeKa congratulated me, mentioning he was worried about AI, but nothing more.

3. The third song was posted on September 14.
LA TECH AVANCE: https://www.wikiloops.com/backingtrack-jam-341921
I take 100% ownership of the lyrics, which were written with no malice and as a joke to tease JyPeKa, since he had told me AI worried him. The lyrics were transferred into Suno, which generated several songs. I chose one, which I processed in Reaper to lengthen it and remove the bass line. I got collaborations, including one from JyPeKa. And even then, I knew absolutely nothing about the AI controversy! JyPeKa added two tracks just to challenge me back and give a friendly response for fun.
JAM SUR IA: https://www.wikiloops.com/backingtrack-jam-341995

So, at that point, I still didn't know things were "boiling" on WikiLoops!
And then, it was one or two days later that everything became clear...
1. JyPeKa sent me a link to the forum thread about AI, where people were arguing a bit;
2. Then marmotte confirmed she had authorized others to sing her songs, but at the time of her authorization, she obviously hadn't thought about AI;
3. Then, I received a private message from a moderator informing me that I was starting to cause trouble and that, in this instance, I was not authorized to post "AI songs" on WikiLoops;
4. And then, Wade wrote to me to express his dissatisfaction ...

In short, my experience on WikiLoops regarding (AI) was not very happy!

Best regards,
Ray
p.s.: For anyone interested; WikiLoops is 99.9% in favor of 100% human-made content!

---

I wish you peace Ray. Your a very fine musician with excellent creativity and skills.

---

Ray, thank you for that review, especially considering the heated discussion.

What crossed my mind when reading of your 3 "experiments" was if it wouldn`t have been more fun to try to get the results via the "normal" Wikiloops capabilities, maybe in a band project. I realise that Wikiloops is more about the process and less about the final result - which you were obviously going for - but one could potentially take the AI version of your 3rd track as a rough idea of what you want your band to achieve.

Just a quick thought

---

Thanks for telling that, Ray!
See, this is why I pushed back on any calls for zero-tolerance policing:
Here we have a long standing wikiloops member with proven human-music skills, who is experimenting with new tools in a very smart and thoughtful way - and the results have obviously received positive community feedback, too.
From what I understood, the communities negative reaction towards a potential flood of AI generated tracks was neither aimed at nor sparked by your activity.

If you have read the https://www.wikiloops.com/knowledge/may_i_upload_ai_generated_tracks article i recently added in response to the discussion, you'll note that much of the post-production/tool cases are okay, your concrete examples only fail the stated rules as some of your workflow includes third party tools.
That is a legal pain point the official wikiloops documents cannot help but mention, so there is that.

We need rules for this community and the way people collaborate,
so we can ask people to stick to them if need be. There is little use arguing about that, so we have the clarification of these rules available now.

I also perceived some of the discussion as overly aggressive, and lacking thought of other intentions when using AI than tricking others.
That wasn't nice to see, and maybe some can take home that calling for rigorous roasting of some group will almost always hit some people one did not intend to hit.
We had some other member falling back to AI generated after loosing their proven ability to perform due to some health issue... Just to mention another use-case one might just have tolerated, for that's someone clinging to music during a recovery.

We are humans. Maybe calling for aggressive policing is as much of a mistake as uploading the wrong file to the wrong platform?
I wish the wikiloops community continues to discover each other with a mindset of
"I may not understand why someone would upload this track, and I rather suspect this is in some ways well-intended or at worst a misunderstanding of what we do here, but I will not jump to conclusions on this individuals motives."
Hope some may get what I am trying to say here :)

---

Thanks, Ray and Dick, for clearing all that up; I’m glad to see things spelled out in a way that mends misunderstandings.
It’s clear that this weird thingamajig, thingumbob, thingummy — this thing, this gadget... well, AI, you know :( ... — is actually driving our poor brains crazy and disconnecting us from what really matters... Well now, let's say : MiouziK Maestro!

---

My dear marmotte,

I believe the word you are looking for is "evolution", which does not necessarily mean for the "better"! :)

I also believe we are living in an extraordinary era, given that we are tremendously shaken up by technological advancements! It is no wonder that the majority of people protesting against AI are worried, considering the exponential rate of AI's "proliferation" across all disciplines simultaneously.

Are you right to say that AI is driving us all "crazy"? Perhaps...? ;)

Today it is AI, and tomorrow, who knows, our great-grandchildren might be protesting against the proliferation of quantum music (Quantum Computer Music), against neuronal music (Brain-Computer Interface), or against the proliferation of music between humans and plants. All these fields are already undergoing experimentation, while we, the human mass, slow to move, are lagging behind...

I don't need to tell you that human history is full of examples of events that slowed down musical evolution. Whether it concerns the way of composing (the prohibition of the triton, Ars Nova... by religious institutions), the acceptance of using a new instrument (the pianoforte, the violin, the electric guitar, the synthesizer, ...) or the way music is shared (gramophone, vinyl, MP3, streaming, AI...).

Before the changes were accepted, there was a waiting period; then, the evolution and its modern characteristics took hold! :)

I can easily picture the first flute players using instruments made from mammoth toe bones being rejected by those who banged rocks against cave-wolf femurs. :D

Is AI a true direct threat to the survival of creators and the authenticity of art? The future will dictate its law...

In the meantime, I will always be happy to know you are collaborating on WikiLoops. <3

Warmest regards,
Ray

p.s.: The attached illustration is courtesy of our friend JyPeKa. :)

---

StJray attached the following image:

---

Edited by StJray on 22 septembre 2026 à 23:14

---

Dear Ray,
Well, "evolution" isn't quite the word I'm looking for; actually, the words I used suit me perfectly, given that there is no clear definition of this thing. "Evolution" implies a slow transformation, whereas the exponential acceleration we are witnessing is closer to the concept of "revolution"—which, incidentally, usually leads to dictatorship, though that’s a topic for another time.
My point is that this goes beyond mere resistance to change, the mechanisms of which I am well aware.I have no idea whether AI will do humanity good or harm; no one can predict that, and the answer is inevitably far more complex than the question. What really matters for me here is whether we enjoy listening to a sound that is likely perfect but lacks that essential element: the soul. That touch of nervous energy in the movement or the attack of a note—breathed into life by a fleeting thought, a drifting emotion, or a surfacing memory—something we cannot name but can certainly perceive and feel. That living spark within the act of creation and interpretation. Generally speaking, I pay no attention to anything synthetic; it doesn't interest me—it simply isn't what I’m looking for.
Furthermore, from a purely ecological standpoint, I question the human tendency to saw off the very branch we are sitting on, especially in a world where access to resources like water and energy is becoming problematic...

---

My dearest marmotte,

By describing this "spark of life" and this "nervous energy in the attack of a note," I think you have beautifully captured what made our collaborations so powerful.<3

I agree with you on an essential point: AI lacks that emotional memory or those human imperfections that make music beautiful. That is why I don't see these tools as a replacement, but rather as mere technical assistants.:)

Even if in its 'evolution' the world is going through major 'revolutions' (and very real ecological challenges), it is precisely this shared piece of humanity that should encourage us to comes back down from the tree and keep both feet firmly on the ground.:D

Ray

---

Humans have always had an unfortunate fascination with flashy new stuff and especially things that can be rationalized as benevolent. However that can wind up as nightmares like atomic bombs, or even cell phones for children relating through social media and having no relationship with the real world.

Technology can be useful, or just another moneymaker to tempt our unfortunate fascination with gadgets.

AI technology's core purpose is selling the ability to replace people or augment their abilities. Replacing people = massive job losses and massive social unrest. It is enormously demanding of power and water. Have we got a lot of either of those that's spare? Are AI companies going to pay welfare to the people they displace?

Is it necessary or wise to subscribe to a technology that has such enormous potential for negative outcomes? There are labs that may be using AI to find a cure for cancer, yet at the same time there are labs racing to find better biological weapons because they fear their enemies might get there first.

That kind of evolution seems more like chaos and extinction.

There is a moral issue that's not being addressed. Do we as human musicians have a real need? Each demand, use and hand over of $$ takes us further in a direction that could be very ugly. You use, we all lose?

Atomic weapons were developed in secrecy. AI is in the open with it's allure of making you sound better, write better, not have to struggle to actually paint a picture... and be replaced at whatever your work might be. Oh yes... and die due to AI recognizing that humans have screwed up the planet or just the escape (trial?) of a biological weapon.

AI will continue as long as individuals keep funding and using it. There is a moral position that can be taken, or we can remain that ape that is still fascinated with flashy new stuff and also subject to addictions... and extinction.

---

This topic is fascinating to me. I recall seeing a video a few months ago, and I wish I could find it again, but it was a researcher or individual talking about how music possibly pre-dates the use of language. That possibly, before humans could communicate in language and writing, information was carried over generations via music.

This sort of touches on it - https://neurosciencenews.com/biology-of-musicality-human-nature-30302/

If we as humans have biological encoding that ties deeply into music, it makes me wonder how AI fits into this.

Some may think this is hogwash, but if you've ever been in a band and have had the luxury to just "click" with people, with no language spoken, just playing, and navigating something new and spontaneously, then you know what I'm talking about. There's a deep unspoken connection at times that is quite interesting to experience.

Anyways, just thoughts on this glorious Wednesday in California :)

Cheers!

---

---
AI does not replace our biological coding for music; rather, it acts as a mirror, an amplifier, and a translator of that profound neurobiological connection.
---
https://youtu.be/rJ_S00kf56E?si=GXlMhfQUJM_ZLguf
[youtube]rJ_S00kf56E[/youtube]
Steven Mithen
The Singing Neanderthals: The Origins of Music, Language, Mind and Body

---