94 percent

When you`ve done something bad, apologize from a safe distance.

Dear Sep Masi: I apologize!!

I totally misunderstood your comment on the shoutbox, when you said that there’s a 94% chance that a particular track is AI generated, which I read as 94% of tracks on Wikiloops are AI generated. Just name the hole in the ground for me to crawl into.

But had you said what I thought you`d said, I`d have complimented myself on my restrained reaction. But you didn’t, so I can’t.

Anyway, that comment led to a nice behind-the-scenes-discussion with Mr. Warbird, so something good came out of that misunderstanding.

Point is that I have always regarded Wikiloops as a safe space, where I can be sure that I`m interacting with people and their (musical) emotional creativity, input and output.

Of course, there’s a gray area when it comes to AI. AI tools for EQìng, mixing and mastering are quick and easy helpers but even in those cases mixing and mastering engineers will rightly argue that results may sound good but lack the footprint of the engineer’s personality.

To put it in a nutshell, when Dick hosts my surprise birthday at the Barnadise and invites all my favorite Wikiloops musicians for a jam, I fully expect Ernie to turn up with his bass and amp. I certainly don’t want to see some geezer carrying a laptop and demanding an internet connection just so that Suno can do the heavy lifting.

Music should be like your wife, who you love despite or maybe even because of the imperfections she has as a human being.
(Apologies to all whose wife is perfect, mine certainly is...ouch)

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Dear MySounds,
Thank you for that, but there was no need to apologise, but I appreciate it just the same.
I totally 100% agree with what you are saying.
And I understand it is getting harder and harder to avoid AI assistance, but it seems to be infiltrating EVERYTHING.
It's like a viral infection
But I DO, for their sake, and from their perspective, understand how & why some people would use it AI to fake it....don't like it, but I get it.
There are people who lack music ability and creativity and want to be seen and heard, and now's their chance, not agreeing with it.
I can understand if you are someone living alone in this godforsaken world and want some human connection, and the only way is through AI on WikiLoops.
Maybe there is an AI Loops out there somewhere for them

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*tongue-in-cheek* : I think there is no need to apologize, it's okay to have a misunderstanding every now and then.

Two aspects I'd like to comment on:
First, this is not about AI so much - the underlying feeling of "this upload does not sound like it was recorded in some living room, I doubt if this is real creativity here" has been triggered by folks using electronic/midi sounds, sample libraries or other artificial enhancements in the past. Some even managed to record so professionally that the suspicion turned out false, but it's a common reaction to a certain type of sound.
Then, there are other social signals like "this person churns out four of those suspicious tracks per day, to then complain about lack of feedback via shoutbox", or a perceived imbalance of "this person creates a lot of remixes of great tracks, but never ever comments on those remixed tracks, it's just grab + add + drop over and over again".
If too many of these social signals align in the wrong way (none of them are against the rules), then the conclusion most active users will draw is: This person is not out to collaborate, this is about self presentation and fishing for attention - and I feel this is a valid conclusion to draw.

If somebody was to use AI to actually engage with other people, be it by creating tempting templates or demonstrating creative moves whilst in dialog with the other musicians, that would be potentially enriching, but if there are no inviting signals, well, why should I be listening?

That is the typical use-case for the re-introduced User-Blocking-Feature I recently wrote about in [url=https://www.wikiloops.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=4371]How to ignore the foolish on the loops[/url].

What I need to call out separately about the whole "incident" is this:
I feel we need to find ways to coexist here, whilst keeping defined what the main focus of this platform is - which should remain collaboratively made hand-made music by humans.
I'll get right to the point:
If you find yourself spending time trying to analyze the AI likelihood of some other members uploads... then you've gone the wrong way in my opinion.
If you end up sharing your outrageous findings with other members privately or drop them in the shoutbox, you are not doing this community a good service (except for triggering this conversation, but that could have been achieved directly).
What I am trying to say is: If that "and now I'll go and do detective work to then call out some self-centered person as a fraud" motivation is strong in you, better hit the "block user" button and walk away.
If you are concerned wikiloops might fail in keeping its focus on hand-made music, come here to the forum and let's have that discussion in the open, I'm all for it.
That's what I'd suggest, no offense meant, I hope that didn't come out too harshly.

Question to anyone passing by:
I wonder if we should think about a new type of classifier on tracks, to make sure we can keep the above-mentioned focus on handmade collaborations.
If we state that there are a few users who tend to uploads lots of mixes that do not sound hand-made and often contain so many instruments that they do not fit the "this has space for your instrument" scheme, whilst we have a majority of users who very clearly play and record one or a few instruments, then why not distinguish the two kinds once the first group threatens to dominate the first-impression on the latest jams list?
I believe we all have a shared interest in making sure this is not some "dump your random mp3" space here, and the thought of claiming back the latest jams by adding a "you have to fit a certain concept to be featured here" barrier has crossed my mind.
The individual "block user" function can change each of our wikiloops user experience, the classifier idea would have a global impact, but it is worth thinking about.
After all, this is our platform here, so, why not establish ways to ensure it stays focused on what we want it to be. I do not think there is any other social media or community site out there where one is guaranteed an automatic home-page feature of ones content.
Feedback anyone? ;)

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Mumble, grumble

But I do think that when someone notices blantant AI use (and it`s not mentioned in the track description), it`s alright to post it in the forum or the shoutbox (even at the risk of creating a misunderstanding, which btw is now cleared up. I`ve agreed to adopt 5 of Sep Masi`s children and will move in with Warbird next month).

But yes, the better way would be to contact the user directly and try to clarify any AI issues.

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I'll send my 3 sons over soon :D

"But I do think that when someone notices blantant AI use (and it`s not mentioned in the track description), it`s alright to post it in the forum or the shoutbox".....Totally agree

I actually did reach out to them a while ago, and asked a few polite questions, even complimented them, but never got a reply.

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i don't want to offend anyone or categorize people, but i do feel we have a lot of musical purists here, and i'm one of them. what i mean is that we have probably all dedicated some time and effort...and years...of learning to play. that effort can't be ignored. we didn't have technology like today to make things easier, so you had to put in time and effort...and we appreciate that amongst other musicians. some might say we can 'hear it'...we can hear the mileage one may carry, it oozes in their playing/singing/etc. that's character, built over a long period of time...that's hard to ignore.

i'm also not bashing technology in any way. i love technology. i know longer own amps because of technology. but i also think the community here ultimately decides what they want to participate in, and that's really the key.

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Beautifully said Nick
I know I have my limitations.
I'm an okaaaayish slide guitarist, I know 9 chords :D
I'm pretty average at the Blues Harp
I think my strengths are my lyrics & vocals
But with all my flaws and imperfections that doesn't stop me doing what I love with a passion.
And that IS the important thing
Not saying anyone should stop using AI for whatever they want to use it for, even though I despise it :D
But as Nick said, years and years of hard work in learning and sweating blisters and all and then along comes AI and within 10 seconds, you have written lyrics, music backing and vocals and a complete song, with a just a few word prompts.

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Hola a todos, soy Carlottis y toco, o pretendo tocar la bateria, de manera autodidacta y de forma emocional y manual, solo edito lo justo,y en mi ordenador cuando estoy grabando para una jam, hago algun que otro ajuste aqui y alla, bueno, tengo unos años y comenzar con el PC no me costo mucho,porque siempre me ha gustado enredar y aprender, de hecho siempre aprendí de los maestros que oia en los LP's de vinilo en los 70 y 80, ahora la IA nos coloca en otra era, no se mucho de eso, pero depende de como se utilice puede ser una herramienta que te da sugerencias o ideas, como cuando oia tocar a un maestro en un disco, pero eso me pasa a mi que tengo unos años y costumbres, un joven lo puede ver como un trabajo definitivo, yo nunca lo vere así,
Saludos ♥️

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