About NINJAM

Hello again to everyone here:)

I wrote in the Shoutbox section, but it was a topic that would make it too busy, I mean, I didn't think it was, but...

Is there any technical or legal obstacle to use Wikiloops and NINJAM together?

As far as I know there shouldn't be. Everybody who plays on NINJAM already agrees to the CC 2.5 License before connecting.

If you want to play your own content from wikiloops on NINJAM, I don't think there should be any obstacles.

I don't know why we should do something like that, I don't know, I guess it's not something that we need as a separate community, but the more the merrier, I mean it's not always the case, but there aren't that many people who produce their own music (and turn it into an online collaboration), so there's strength in numbers.

Also, NINJAM is a bit more lively, if we want to convert the brain synchronization captured there into a song format, (and we have friends who are interested in this), wikiloops would have a very important function in this regard.

That's all I can think of, I hope you will take it into consideration.

---

Hey RockTribe & welcome around the 'loops :)

I'm only partially familiar with ninjam, not using it myself, and have not studied their terms, so, take what I'll say as hints when it comes to ninjam.
I guess I am quite familiar with wikiloops musics legal setup, so you may rely on anything I'm going to state, whilst I'd like to add that I am not going to attempt to explain all the nit-grid of intellectual property rights in a multi-national scenario such as ours.
That would be a book to read, and no, I'm not going to write that tonight.

Now, to get that out of the way: I don't see ninjam as a competitor or threat to wikiloops, as you say, it's a different setup, with -maybe- similar users. I'm all for collaborations, don't get me wrong on that please.

Now, your questions, my answers:
Q: Can a wikiloops member take part on ninjam, taking a self-made recording which is also published on wikiloops to stream it as a backing via ninjam?
A: Sure, but it has to be 100% self made. If it is a remix of some track downloaded from wikiloops (as most tracks on wikiloops are), then that would require prior consent by the creator(s) of the downloaded template track.

Q: Why? isn't wikiloops using the Creative Commons license model just like ninjam?
A: No, wikiloops is using it's own license model, which is similar to CC in some ways, but not identical, and submitting music under some altered license is not covered by the granted license.
Check the wikiloops knowledge base on more details on this if you care.
Legally, it boils down to: Is streaming via Ninjam true private use? I'm not sure it is - one could argue about that.
Is proper credit to all involved musicians + wikiloops taken care of on ninjam when streaming wikiloops material? Probably not.
So, extra care would be needed to meet the wikiloops licenses requirements, if that is not taken care of, you are acting outside of what our license allows.
That doesn't mean we'll instantly send a bunch of mean lawyers your way, it is just the legal situation explained.

Q: Can i upload a recording of a ninjam session to wikiloops?
A: If you are the only one playing in that recording, then yes,
if there are other players recorded, too, then no. You cannot act on these "third party" musicians, legally speaking, which is why you have to explicitly confirm you are the single author of anything you submit to wikiloops. Uploads to wikiloops may contain wikiloops material, that's covered, but no third parties creative output.

Hope that helps put things into perspective & greetings from wikiloops headquarters, germany

---

Thanks for the detailed answer. Already, when I uploaded a loop (just a example), I only took the mix of the channel I was playing and uploaded it here. I mean, otherwise it would be against the working logic of loops.

What I don't understand is, for example, if I created a loop and uploaded it to wikiloops for the first time and it has a customized license (i mean wikiloops license), can't I still use this loop in the improvisation environment in NINJAM? It's my own loop, so I think the answer is yes.

If the answer is yes, then what I'm suggesting (wikiloops+NINJAM) can be used in general without any problems.

I mean, I didn't think that I would like a loop from here and improvise on it in NINJAM, in general people who play in NINJAM do it in an improvisational setting. For example, if you look at the loop I uploaded to wikiloops, you can listen to it on the player I played it on, and I put the NINJAM mp3 as a gdrive link, all of them were produced together without any prior design.

We can bring these loops produced with the spirit of improvisation to wikiloops and give them a different dimension. Of course, we will not do the whole improvisation but only the bottom loop. So I don't think there will be any licensing issues with what I've told you, and this is what I see when I look at the subject again with the information you've given me. I'm not misunderstanding anything, am I?

It's also not a competitor, of course, but two different lanes, which could be a nice opening for online music collaboration open to the whole world.

---