If you have played in bands you know when you write or practice a song it continues to improve and develop. That I see is the only drawback to on-line jamming, as we practice songs preparing to perform it just keeps getting better. online we produce it post it and for me I never sing it again kind of bummer really, On the plus side no lugging equipment and nobody ever boos here!
The loss of repetition
Axenvocs is certainly speaking for those who wish to play and practice a piece until they have it on auto-pilot. There is another point of view however. Sometimes when jamming (especially live) you can come up with something fresh that actually gets stale if rehashed. I've certainly heard others say that often their first take has a freshness and vitality that the following takes just don't have.
It's also a point of view: Which is more important the song/tune or the performance? If honing the song/tune, then by all means work it! If you are crafting a template then I guess (as someone who doesn't) that it's important to craft something that has good rhythm, clear intent in the structure, and is (somewhat) easy for others to follow. For those who follow, their intent may be anything from having fun to carefully crafting a complimentary part that has a professional sheen. Others, like me, just want to jam or improvise, which can turn out good, or ordinary.
I've got to admit that when in a band that practices pieces, the music can evolve and the group can become "tighter". Yet, for me the joy goes out of music when it becomes a repetitive rather than a creative process. Music, like life isn't "one size fits all".
Wikiloops totally satisfies my craving for new sounds and a huge opportunity to play in a creative mode all the time. I'm very grateful for those who do the hard yards of creating templates.
Play in a band that repeats the same tunes (even if our own)? Yea, been there and never going back.
It's also a point of view: Which is more important the song/tune or the performance? If honing the song/tune, then by all means work it! If you are crafting a template then I guess (as someone who doesn't) that it's important to craft something that has good rhythm, clear intent in the structure, and is (somewhat) easy for others to follow. For those who follow, their intent may be anything from having fun to carefully crafting a complimentary part that has a professional sheen. Others, like me, just want to jam or improvise, which can turn out good, or ordinary.
I've got to admit that when in a band that practices pieces, the music can evolve and the group can become "tighter". Yet, for me the joy goes out of music when it becomes a repetitive rather than a creative process. Music, like life isn't "one size fits all".
Wikiloops totally satisfies my craving for new sounds and a huge opportunity to play in a creative mode all the time. I'm very grateful for those who do the hard yards of creating templates.
Play in a band that repeats the same tunes (even if our own)? Yea, been there and never going back.
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I hear what your saying but I could be wrong but I think he is coming from the point of veiw in the wikiloops platform.Yes in a live setting what your saying is true but wikiloops is more like working in a studio format you are adding layers like a cake to reach an end result.
wikiloops is exactly what you make it ! if' you're leaning to the studio side then embrace it fully :) and if you like to jam through several tracks in one session then have lots of fun in the process !
i like the facts tracks are just there whenever one needs them ... crawl the database at your own pace and pick whatever track suits your mood/need/hope/desire ... a very old track might just be your golden nugget so to speak !
personaly i like both sides just as much ! with probably as very special tenderness to the more organized and polished side but that's just me :)
i like the facts tracks are just there whenever one needs them ... crawl the database at your own pace and pick whatever track suits your mood/need/hope/desire ... a very old track might just be your golden nugget so to speak !
personaly i like both sides just as much ! with probably as very special tenderness to the more organized and polished side but that's just me :)
I think this is a very good reason as to why I approach the 'Loops from a jam perspective. Whilst I could learn and practice tracks to get them 'perfect' - and would likely be much happier with the quality of the result - it is a lot of work for something that will probably never be done again.
And, as Wade rightly points out, practice doesn't necessarily mean 'improvement' - for me, at least. The free-flow and creative flukes that often occur when trying to play a song for the first time can often lead to a more fulfilling session. On top of that, it certainly for me can often sound 'fresh' rather than contrived. And I'm willing to put up with a few dud hits or whatever if the overall performance has good attitude and energy. Plus the marvels of digital editing means you can brush the worst bits under the virtual carpet, or copy bits from under another carpet to hide the mistakes, and the world is usually none the wiser!
I treat much of the 'Loops as my practice routine. Rather than sit at my kit trying to work out what to thrash through next, I can jump on here and have the inspiration provided for me. I just happen to record the result of that practice. It is my very own musical 'Wheel of Fortune'. As a young drummer, I always struggled for ideas of what to work on when practising so the 'Loops is amazing. Just a shame it's 25 years too late for me but you can't have everything! When I was learning to drum, the internet was a big secret called ARPANET and was exclusively designed to allow the USA military computers to survive nuclear war. But I digress...
Of course, to be able to jam your way through a track, you must have sufficient confidence in your playing ability to get through tracks. Better to practice and work on it than give a performance you're not happy with.
I judge neither approach more harshly but, as I've said before, I operate a three-take policy on jams. After around three goes, the vitality goes from the track and I shelve it for later.
But jamming it works for me. For time reasons. For challenge reasons. And just for utter enjoyment I derive from just banging through a track without much of an idea where it's going! I get a real buzz from it. But I also put in some work on tracks if they're complex enough but even then, I just wing it until I mess something up, punch in and carry on!
And I completely agree with your sentiment that if you do work a lot on a song, it's a shame that it never gets to be played again!
And, as Wade rightly points out, practice doesn't necessarily mean 'improvement' - for me, at least. The free-flow and creative flukes that often occur when trying to play a song for the first time can often lead to a more fulfilling session. On top of that, it certainly for me can often sound 'fresh' rather than contrived. And I'm willing to put up with a few dud hits or whatever if the overall performance has good attitude and energy. Plus the marvels of digital editing means you can brush the worst bits under the virtual carpet, or copy bits from under another carpet to hide the mistakes, and the world is usually none the wiser!
I treat much of the 'Loops as my practice routine. Rather than sit at my kit trying to work out what to thrash through next, I can jump on here and have the inspiration provided for me. I just happen to record the result of that practice. It is my very own musical 'Wheel of Fortune'. As a young drummer, I always struggled for ideas of what to work on when practising so the 'Loops is amazing. Just a shame it's 25 years too late for me but you can't have everything! When I was learning to drum, the internet was a big secret called ARPANET and was exclusively designed to allow the USA military computers to survive nuclear war. But I digress...
Of course, to be able to jam your way through a track, you must have sufficient confidence in your playing ability to get through tracks. Better to practice and work on it than give a performance you're not happy with.
I judge neither approach more harshly but, as I've said before, I operate a three-take policy on jams. After around three goes, the vitality goes from the track and I shelve it for later.
But jamming it works for me. For time reasons. For challenge reasons. And just for utter enjoyment I derive from just banging through a track without much of an idea where it's going! I get a real buzz from it. But I also put in some work on tracks if they're complex enough but even then, I just wing it until I mess something up, punch in and carry on!
And I completely agree with your sentiment that if you do work a lot on a song, it's a shame that it never gets to be played again!
I'm just not capable of a short answer, am I?
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Great points in here. I agree when I used to gig songs evolve, but also you can really catch lightning in a bottle on a take that is hard to recapture. Man, hate to be that guy but I agree with all of you :)
The question: Wikiloops and / or go into a band, I am interested, because I give in the fall (with sufficient registrations) a Wikiloops course. There I will have to deal with this question. In this discussion, arguments and answers are compiled. Many Thanks :)
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A lot of really good points here. So glad for everybody who joined in the conversation. And the bottom line is I do love the loops and it keeps me playing
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I have a few songs I have re-done. I do not wish to delete the old version...just perhaps look at the new version as an alternate version. :) As a singer I think it is fair to look at improving/upgrading/ or just even changing the vocals a bit as a new venture into the same melody. :)
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