AI on Wikiloops a no-go?

Let's make so strange music that models will refuse consuming it for their training. This makes us safe from being copied. :D

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A. There's a line between AI and human creativity, but that is not it.

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Yes!!
First define what AI is for this site.

- If you program sounds
- If you use samples longer than 30 seconds
....

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So you're volunteering to act as a full time monitor? Or are you just thinking this somehow magically happens? How about paying $40,000 to hire someone to do this? Are you paying?

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Unclear!
We are in the position of prohibiting, with some rules.
(this is science fiction or not so far and it can be cheap, I could get a budget)
A trained AI can distinguish if it has clear rules that is admissible and that is not

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AI doesn't potentially submit a track to a site. People do that. Or is it that (once again) the suggestion is being made to spend heaps of $$ to develop a program that somehow senses that music has been AI generated... until the next improvement in AI that then requires another expensive upgrade to (somehow) make judgements about some aspect of AI that's acceptable?

Any one of us can right now listen to a track from an individual and hear if they are doing the singing, if there are a lot of instruments that we know they aren't playing. So banning AI is relatively as simple as the existing bans on politics, attacks on others, copyright, etc. just by hitting the red flag. If there is to be some sort of accommodation for AI, then that requires a lot of scrutiny to say what's allowed and what's not. That's where it all falls apart. Who is monitoring (time and possibly a lot of cost). If you think it's possible to use AI to screen itself, then that's probably a big cost. Who's paying for that?

Please people. Make this simple. It really comes down to letting AI in... goodbye Wikilopps, or banning it. Nobody has come up with a means of controlling having "some" AI here without it costing time, money and potentially the soul of this place and many of us leaving.

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I get it Wade

The community is what is important

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[quote]josepssv wrote:
I get it Wade

Here is a very interesting article .. The Beatles using Ai

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-65881813

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Maybe everyone here is an AI apparition punking you. Not going to be too long before it will be hard to tell.

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:D:D:D

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Just a quick insert here, without taking sides as it is not yet decided:

For those arguments that say "this and that site are using AI...everybody is doing it... it's part of modern life....AI is here to stay...you can't stop progress...even the music business is using it...Beatles...and...and...and" I answer:

A lot of sites allow swearing and aggressive language. A lot of sites are allowing political content...a lot of sites have thousands of bots that posts all sorts of stuff...a lot of sites allow covers and copyrighted materials... and the list goes on.

But Wikiloops does not. It is unique, clean, friendly, and if needed, can do things completely different to other sites. Just saying ;)

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If this forum thread were to make a decision...
Robjol option is mine too. Ensure that there is a basic, primitive and human place where technology does not enter, and another with all the technological possibilities: samples, remix, programming, AI.
That would not be frozen to make only two tags and the musician signs up for one or the other

Section A (primitive) can share with section B (technological), but not in the opposite direction, none track from option B can enter section A

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Hi,
here maybe just one or two remarks

How to control these sorts of things.

Already translating to the english language would require assistance from some software using AI.
-Modern amp simulation works with this technology
-I have seen that after an update my Logic offers not only the logic session drummer, but also a keyboard and bassist
-For these I can simply choose a simply chord progression and there it is a simple melody.( I have not have time to really test this )

- So would that mean not to allow the usage of modern DAW completely as this seems to be the future.
-Also this at least to me does not seem to be the real problem.
So easy to built a cool backing track with loops - no AI required.

To me seems wrong to ban all this all this technology more seems to bring some more equality to a scene that seems to be dominated by people that are bit priviledged by their origin and educational background-
is that already swearing :-) - kind of post colonialistic style

Personally I like to play with all of this and it helps me a lot to learn some things , that I have never understood, arrange my own tracks
But I would not really like to post this and it does not feel very creative, so using it to create a backing track just add my instrument live, seems okay to me. Using AI to create a lead instrument I don't like ...mainly because the results sound a little "twisted/weird"

Somehow Wikiloops seems maybe the wrong place for me, specially as drummer, but that does not mean it's bad... keep on rocking !:W

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I did not intend to start a discussion that would polarize and split the Wikiloops community!! And I didn`t even forsee that we would have a discussion. I just wanted to vent my anger at myself.

But as so many of you have shared their thoughts (Thank You All!) how about this:

Independent of what the powers that be (that`s Dick) may decide in future, can we all just stay honest in the meantime and make clear in our uploads when we`ve used AI and for what purpose we`ve used it?

I realize that this will not solve the bigger long-term issue but it would at least give each of us a choice of selecting/deselecting tracks to work on.

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This might be a different topic but I am sorry that you feel this way, especially as drummers are a rare commodity on Wikiloops.

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I can't understand this at all. If you got your wish for example all pianos must be real pianos recorded with a microphone. I'm willing to bet 99% of pianists here are using a keyboard and a piano emulation of some sort, possibly built into the keyboard. Witches! Burn them!
How about banning overdubbing? It's not natural, people should play together.

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It's a great, current topic My Sounds. It does not divide WL, there are only a few of us who write.

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The observation is totally accurate for me.
Until now the labeling on this site has been about style and instruments, but neither of those two labels are effective and real.
Instruments are not labeled correctly because many are virtual, as you say.
AI takes over musical styles and writes songs about those styles, hundreds of them even by country.
That labeling is very difficult, however labeling by technological level would be great and an AI track would be at the top.
Two levels seems like poor labeling.
The singer's voice in the first level and the synthetic voice in the last :)

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I think we`re in danger of watering down the AI discussion if we mix it with other topics like "real" vs "electronic" instruments. This might be an equally important topic for some but my gut feeling is that it is separate and independent of AI.

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Yes the Beatles (actually Paul McCartney) used "AI" to extract John Lennon's voice from a lox-fi demo of 'Now And Then' recorded in his living room on a boombox circa 1980. However, to my mind, it's not really AI rather than hi-quality, precise EQ-ing that's picked out, enhanced and _extracted_ the unique frequencies of Lennon's voice. There's no real creative input, any more than could have been done by a skilled and dedicated sound engineer who could be bothered or paid enough. I think the difference between the work on 'Now And Then' and AI is that one is _extractive_ (fine with me) and the other attempts to be _creative_ (not so much).

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