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It's More Than Music Here

It's More Than Music Here

posted on #21
TeeGee Supporter
Posts: 1756
Joined: 27 sept. 2014
Dick wrote:
TG_Strat wrote:
[i]"...but as it stands there won't be any criticism allowed..."[/i]

this is not true, there is no such statement on wikiloops as "criticism is not allowed", I don't know where you got that from tbh.


You are right, I should have be more precise. I did not mean that it was forbidden by you - I meant is that it seems, for me, that many people don't want criticism for all sorts of reasons, and it is generally frowned upon. And may I add, the some reasons are probably right.
But, I emphasize again in apologetic mood, for me personally, I would prefer an honest opinion to multiple "great song", "great playing" etc.

And I promise I won't leave the loops if you or someone pointed out what I did wrong on a song/rhythm/mix, the same way you correct my many mistakes in forum posts :D
posted on #22
mpointon Supporter
Posts: 518
Joined: 27 févr. 2015
nilton wrote:
[i]What about testing some new ideas, for example turn a concept into a lesson and upload it[/i]


It's something I've considered suggesting (as well as what Stan suggests) here: some video lessons on the technical aspects of recording and mixing drums for the loops, and equally importantly, how to practice and work with metronomes/clicks so it's natural, as well as how to analyse a track/template to work out what to play - the 'musical approach' if you will. Whilst there's plenty of online lessons out there covering most instruments, few approach handling the musical skills needed to really interpret and belong to a song - the most important role of any musician, above and beyond technique. Most focus on specific techniques or emulating drummers particular patterns/styles. I'm talking about how to be a 'musician' with your instrument, if that makes sense.

I confess I don't have the serious pro abilities of, say, DaFunkyDrummer, but I am an experienced and well-trained player, both live and in the studio. I'd love to contribute to some 'how to' or instructional videos geared specifically towards the loops.

Although I sincerely doubt I'm very good in front of a camera!

If there is an appetite for this from drummers, I'm more than willing to give it a stab. :) Just tell me what you would like to know and I'll start from there!
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posted on #23
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Martin, whatever you or the others upload and do in this matter, I will be reading with great interest, regardless if it is related to drums or guitars or vocals. I find it fascinating!
posted on #24
fanne
Membre
Posts: 78
Joined: 25 août 2014
Reading some very interesting ideas here, seems there is something cooking on WL.
Is WL evolving from a musical social network to a music site where you can exchange ideas, give and take compliments and a little criticism from time to time, info about how ,and with what, the upload was made ?,I think it would bring WL to another higher level.
On gearslutz you can read what is what, and what it sounds like, on WL you can actually HEAR it.
A bonus,when you talk about gear,Dick sure can find some sponsorship and advertising to help his stuck financing.
About the criticism I feel a bit reluctant, I don’ want to be “Mister know it all”, who makes comments that won’t appreciated by the uploader, isn’t it something for the moderators on WL to start a discussion and then we all could share our thoughts.
Another concern of mine is: would it not scare off the less talented among us from uploading? What about the uploaders who just want to make fun and would be displeased by some criticism?
posted on #25
Dick Supporter
Posts: 2843
Joined: 30 déc. 2010
@in reply to JohnV:
Let me try to add my .2cent on some of the aspects mentioned, ideally without writing a book - I hope you are aware of my appreciation for your thoughts, even though I may see things a little different.

You have asked the question wether WL is "ready to go on a new level", and expressed the feeling there were "moderator action" needed to achieve this. I disagree there.

WL is ready to go on what you call a new level as soon as the users are, and there is very little need to add/change anything:
So you want constructive feedback on some aspect of your track? Tell people in the track description: "I want feedback on my fingerstyle picking please, I'm not so much interested in sound feedback, since I am focusing on playing technique right now." and see what happens.
State the instrument & brand(s) of used devices in the description or the keywords/tags, and wikiloops will become a place where you can browse for sound examples matching instruments instantly.
If people would choose to upload lesson-kind tracks featuring explicit and easy to follow chord instructions, WL might serve as a lesson base just as well. Tag such tracks with "lesson", and they'll be very easy to find.
If users use the track descriptions and the "recording gear" section on their profiles to enlighten others about their workflow, or start a forum thread giving advice on a special case or to review a piece of equipment you feel is worth recommending, the "new level" could be reached without one change to the system.

Thing is, there seem to be quite a lot of people who are here just for the fun of it who do not care to state any of the above.
The process of "labeling" things correctly does not seem to be as much fun, and obviously there are other aspects than the "I would want to improve by getting feedback"-motive and the "I like to read how others do it"-interest some have expressed here.

WL caters to various interest groups and musical skill levels at the same time and leaves the users with the geatest possible individual freedom to use it in a way they enjoy- I do not necessaryly share or understand all of these ways myself, all I can tell is, it seems to work for quite a lot of people. It is a "running system" after all, so lets not forget about the good advice better not to touch that without good reason.

As I tried to explain above, you may use the offered system to communicate and educate on a "higher level", the choice rests with each one of us.

You have asked: [i]What about the uploaders who just want to make fun and would be displeased by some criticism?[/i]
I believe you are right wondering about that.
If you do not know anything about the motivation of the person uploading, about their musical education, their recording setup (closely tied to budget, as we all know), chances of criticising something the uploader was either well aware of or can't help are quite high -
if I upload for the sheer fun of it, and you give me feedback on which frequencies to filter, to spend money on equipment (which I can't) and to work on my german accent, then we don't really meet there. No matter how well you do in writing constructive criticism, if you lack information on my background, you can't really give matching advice.

I have a history of tracks containing lesson-type-approaches, sheer nonsense and tracks where I attempted to achieve something and was curious to know if people would have helpfull feedback - and I'd say I got the right kind of feedback on all of those, just by stating my expectations quite clearly.
So, if any, I'd repeat my advice: Ask for feedback/criticism on your points of interest in the track description, and don't go too far giving un-requested feedback, it might easily go wrong.
posted on #26
nilton
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Posts: 374
Joined: 25 mars 2012
I agree totally with Dick here, but the next question is: How do we cultivate the habit of labeling or tagging the uploads?
I do label my tracks with instrument and effects used and i will label future uploads with request of specific criticism but i feel a bit lost when it comes to tags. What i feel that a tag is either too specific or too general. "Lesson" is an exception though.
posted on #27
TeeGee Supporter
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Joined: 27 sept. 2014
Dick, thanks for finding the time to reply in such detail.

[i]"So, if any, I'd repeat my advice: Ask for feedback/criticism on your points of interest in the track description, and don't go too far giving un-requested feedback, it might easily go wrong."[/i]

Ok, that sounds fair and reasonable, I will use this from now on.

So I have been trying to imagine how I would do it, thinking of constructing a standard sentence that I could copy/pase every time (I am a lazy guy), and I had an idea (which you probably going to hate), in order to help those who do not speak English very well, and to make these requests easy to find and formulate. So how about there would be a series of tickboxes, where you could tick while the song is uploading, that would afterwards generate standard sentences underneath the wave or wherever:

[] Yes, I want feedback/critique on the following items:
[] Everything - please be free to tell me anything you like
[] Timekeeping
[] Songstructure
etc. etc etc

+ a little sentence constructed by you reminding people tto be nice.

What do you think, doable?
posted on #28
Dick Supporter
Posts: 2843
Joined: 30 déc. 2010
@nilton - I agree, the tagging thing needs some thought & some role-model use,
I could think of a second tag which we should establish: "keyofX" without blanks, stating the tracks key would actually make that searchable, just "X" or "key of X" will not work since text search requires a minimum of 4 characters to work.
Again, this does call for some role-modelling use by aware members to become a great feature.

@TG -
your idea to work with copy&paste does reveal a quite common human attribute: lazyness :P
I'm a bit reluctant to cater to this, any idea to stimulate human interaction by offering pre-defined semi-interaction is bound to go wrong IMO.
If you don't speak english well enough to express your interests and to give the needed info, you'll hardly be able to enjoy the feedback you get...
I'm not sure there is a solution by offering multiple choice checkboxes.
General flags like "Tell me what you think" might possibly result in "I'm thinking bout getting a burger right now"-answers...
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posted on #29
nilton
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Posts: 374
Joined: 25 mars 2012
What about rhythm/timelines? I doubt that most of us here have the knowledge to label them in a way that is understood by a majority of users. There could be some predefined tags like straight/8, syncopated/8, swing/8 and so on (a more rhythmically educated person should work these out). But again the problem here is to get people to both apply and understand its usefulness
posted on #30
fanne
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Posts: 78
Joined: 25 août 2014
. @ Dick thanks for your detailed explanation to all participants of this threat, wish my English was as good as yours so we could exchange thoughts a bit more.
But on the other hand, if the moto is..It rolls, so let it roll…well, so be it…me I like to change things, always searching for the better even if it turned out to be worse.
posted on #31
Neronick
Membre
Posts: 282
Joined: 19 août 2013
May I suggest: It would be nice if we have a public list where every member can post ONE wish. E.g.

"Please upload the missing blues-guitar solos on AnneCozean's No Thumbs Blues"

Because with these solos the work-flow of this song will be finished. Important: the list may only contain one open project for each member.

I could type the wish in my profile but it would not be the best place to offer a musical task to members who won't visit profile-pages. :).

Call it "Offered Studio Musician's Jobs For Fun" or whatever can express this new topic. Thanks for helping.
posted on #32
kimbo
Membre
Posts: 284
Joined: 8 avr. 2014
dick said it all... "if it aint broke, don't fix it"...plenty of lessons on you tube, constructive criticism can be requested, and if people want to know "how you got that sound" they can ask via messaging or the comments box, or via the shout box if the person concerned is signed in.
ps i always try to sign out...but i do notice some who are permanently online...no names:)
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