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When a user doesn't like a remix...

posted on #1
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Posts: 29
Joined: 13.06.14
I'm the most inexperienced, and least talented person on this site. I understand that.

Sometimes I notice people don't react with any enthusiasm whatsoever to the fact that I liked their music enough to add on to it. Some people will thumb it, but not say anything. I find it strange. I've had two or three remixes on my stuff, and I was very happy and flattered. I made sure to show appreciation and interest in it.

Am I doing something wrong by joining in? Should I avoid tracks done by superior players? Are less skilled players resented a little for "ruining" tracks?

Any thoughts welcome!

Love it here and trying to get better. Thanks to everyone who has been supportive!

posted on #2
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Posts: 52
Joined: 28.01.12
Every user on this site will react different to every track. Be true to yourself and happy with a remix before you post it. If you want a responce it needs to be good. Not perfect, but good. There is also the whole social media aspect of this site. Don't let that eat at you. Life is too short to worry about comments on a remix. If you're happy with a track, and want to share, then that's what it's all about. I think musicians on here are always pleased when they get a remix, just they like it to be good. Getting a thumb here and there is golden, don't worry about the comments.
posted on #3
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Posts: 2564
Joined: 30.12.10
Hey Mike,

You dared to ask an honest question here, and this by itself shows you have some trust that there is some nice people on wikiloops willing to answer such questions. I like that, and I'll try to share my opinion with you (even tho I would not consider myself an "advanced" player myself).

I believe what is most important: wikiloops is the only band-like thing where you will not hear any complaints for not showing up for a couple of months :) We have quite a lot of members who come in irregularily, so that might be one of the reasons why they don't immediatly react to remixes you may have posted.

If you think of very well-liked musicians like MrAdamOnDrums or Dafunkydrummer (just naming two...there are so many!), you need to keep in mind, they will propably have 300 remixes to listen to when checking in once a month - and I feel its no surprise they wont listen & comment on every single one of them, which again has nothing to do with the quality of those remixes, but with the sheer amount of tracks.

The longer you are on the 'loops, the better you get to know the musicians here. In the beginning, people tend to focus on the "best rated jams" and the "latest jams" to find tracks, but after a while, most people start "following" a few musicians they really like and do not check out other peoples stuff that much. Personally, I try to check out new peoples music quite regularily, but if I get the impression someones taste in music is very different than mine, I will steer clear of their tracks. I believe the avatar pictures people choose do play a role as well - if you switch avatars too often, people will not recognize you at first sight, while certain avatars will attract attention right away (slims is a great example, it sticks out very nicely).
This switch from "I'm trying to listen to everything" to "I follow a few great people" is something that I'd consider totally normal - you wouldn't check out the latest posts on facebook or youtube either, there are just too many. Again - that has nothing to do with your mixing / playing qualities at all.

Now, since wikiloops is growing really fast and the number of dayly uploads is exploding lately, it does indeed get a bit harder to get attention to your tracks. To get a lot of listeners, thumbs and comments, one needs to build some kind of reputation, attract some followers and make themselfs known a little - hey, I get 24 thumbs on a mediocre bass, just because its me - thats not related to the quality of my playing either and basicly the opposite problem to yours :)

So, here's a few hints what I believe new members would benefit from:
- get a easy to spot avatar and keep it for a longer while
- post remixes one at a time. If I notice someone I am following is dropping 20 quickly done tracks in 30minutes (and I get notified about all of them), then thats annoying and I get the feeling he or she didn't really take much time to do well. Also, if you post several mixes in a row, only the very last one will get featured on the startpage, so all previous ones will propably not get many listeners.
- start by posting remixes, not templates. The more you collaborate on other peoples tracks, the better the chances to get known a little. Just dropping new templates will not do that, and dropping templates or remixes which end the collaboration because they are complete works is not a good thing to attract people looking to collaborate.
- Give comments that exceed the "one-word-class". Comments like "Great!", "Killer!", "Nice!" etc are cool, but if you check your newsfeed and find out user X left the comment "Nice!" on ten of your tracks within three minutes, it starts to feel a little odd.
Stick out by actually giving feedback to other peoples tracks, tell them what their track made you think about, reminded you of, what could be improved, whats especially good etc etc. People will check your stuff out if you seem to care for theirs and give interesting feedback.
- choose creative titles for your tracks. "first attempt" and "added bass" are not likely to attract anyones attention! Use the tags & description opportunities to show people what it is you intended to present - a commentless track with a poor title and no tags looks less great, and giving some info shows you actually meant something when posting a track. (see tipps & tricks forum for an article on this issue)
- get active in the forum and introduce yourself here, it shows another level of being interested in the community than just posting tracks.
- take on the approach Slim explained in his reply. It basicly is as Forest Gumps Mom said: "wikiloops is like a box of chocolate - you never know what you will get!" - you may get the greatest remix three years down the road, when one of your followers discovers the track you posted yesterday. Maybe. Dont get frustrated is nothing happens at first, rather contribute to either offer cool templates to others or to document your own progress and fun (both is cool), but dont judge your wikiloops experience by thumbs or number of comments. After all, the average amount of comments per track is still way higher on wikilops than on any other network I know - dont expect the wikiloops members to be waiting for your track, tho, everyone is busy having fun, and there are quite a lot of tracks out there wanting attention :)

To answer you question directly: A musically "poor" remix of a track you have been working on really hard is not a nice experience.
It does not happen often, but sometimes it does.
If someone takes out a badly mixed guitar and flushes all my efforts with a poor five minute guitar solo, then thats a sign he might have had too much fun to realize what he or she was doing.
To me as the template producer, its a poor experience. I believe nobody really minds this happening every now and then, but the remixer will certainly be remembered as rather careless... so fewer listeners next time.
A description saying "I had so much fun, I couldn't stop soloing! Dicks bass just made me take it out all the way :) sorry if I left no room, had to do it!" can change this impression A LOT, as you may imagine.

Bottom line: dont start feeling bad or questioning your skill because f the way people react (or dont react) to your track. Ask for feedback what can be improved if you feel you need some!
posted on #4
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Posts: 20
Joined: 18.03.12
Yeah, what Slim and Dick said - I'll just add that I've uploaded remixes that have ended up with 20 or even 30 thumbs, and yet had no comment or thumb from the original player. It's not personal and definitely nothing to worry about :)
posted on #5
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Posts: 29
Joined: 13.06.14
Dick, that's a great set of tips and info!
posted on #6
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Joined: 13.06.14
alexj wrote:
Yeah, what Slim and Dick said - I'll just add that I've uploaded remixes that have ended up with 20 or even 30 thumbs, and yet had no comment or thumb from the original player. It's not personal and definitely nothing to worry about :)

Yeah, and you're really good too. Thanks for mentioning that.
posted on #7
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Posts: 990
Joined: 16.10.11
I go along with what everyone else says and just want to add I may go overboard with this site a little because I enjoy playing and listening. Some of the tracks I personally would not even attempt to play on only because of my personal taste. I'm a blues player and will try some rock. But as for the wiki there are no bad musicians here, we are all in a musical world that Dick and his crew has developed to play and enjoy. I sometime amaze myself when I hear the final product I put up on this site. I ask myself Did I Do That cool.
Keep on Jamming on the wiki its good for the heart and soul.

posted on #8
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Posts: 282
Joined: 19.08.13
I have read an article and they quoted Bob Dylan, who said something like: "No, I was not surprised, that Hendrix played as song of mine, I was only surprised that he played such a little few."

Sorry for my bad english, maybe I quoted it not exactly. But I can really feel what Dylan felt.

Here are my 3-cents. 1) There is a big difference between an international stage and a rehearsal room-party.
2) Less is more
3) On the long run the music business acts like a soccer/football-leaque: Everyone joins the right team where he/she belongs.

Personally, I am very happy that I have the right and the possibility to compose a new song every day and to present some of the new ones if I like to a very small audience. Keith Richards, one of the greatest guitarists of the world, is forced to play his old stuff on every concert and no one seems to interested in his new songs... For a composer this situation can be very frustating, I guess.

Keep on practising!
posted on #9
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Posts: 239
Joined: 09.05.11
It happens often to me that I like a remix, give a thumb therefore, but do not make a comment. Why? Just because I did not know what to say. I avoid comments like great! Awesome! - If I have to share a remark, an impression, something special, I say it - if not, I have the thumb that's all!
posted on #10
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Posts: 29
Joined: 13.06.14
Lutz wrote:
It happens often to me that I like a remix, give a thumb therefore, but do not make a comment. Why? Just because I did not know what to say. I avoid comments like great! Awesome! - If I have to share a remark, an impression, something special, I say it - if not, I have the thumb that's all!

Yup good points. I'm trying to mention specific things or moments in tracks lately in an effort to really support people while validating my sincerity. I think we'd all be happier if we knew what specific riffs or whatever were making people feel something.
posted on #11
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Posts: 89
Joined: 14.06.11
Hi mic!

I want to try to explain what wikiloops means to me.
For me wikiloops is a plattform where i can jam with people all arround the world - and it is a plattform to learn to be a better musician.
I am the owner of a track that was thumbed down (in the early days of wikiloops it was possible to thumb up and down)
But what does that mean to me? It means nothing. I am here to have fun jammimg with all the nice guys and gals ;)
Meanwhile i have pretty strong friendships to some musicians from all over the world. I like their music and they like mine (i hope so...;))
I have seen that there are some guys following you but you aren`t following to anybody. Why don`t you?
Music is a matter of taste. Some people like this kind of music - some like that kind of music.
Hopefully you can understand my confused english words ;)
Tha bass has to be a lil louder...!
posted on #12
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Posts: 6
Joined: 26.11.14
I for one am flattered whether good or bad, usually the take is interesting with some bright spots.. everyones so nice and solid on here. this site is a dream
posted on #13
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Posts: 139
Joined: 28.11.13
I'll chime in...I kinda go with what Lutz said..My profile may say I am retired..and technically I am..however I work alot. In addition...my purpose here on Wiki is to improve my skills after puttin my horn in the closet after high school and dealing with life..kids, being a kid back when I was, starting a family, you know..the stuff we all do/did. And now..with more time on my hands(seems like not that much though) I've decided to get back in the saddle...and stumbled on this place. When I listen to tracks..I tend to give thumbs as well and not comment much(as I kinda go through the lastest uploads rather quick) and like Rickplayer...I tend to go with they Genre of music I like playing to..But one thing I haven't seen others mention here..is that I have reached out to some of the folks here(Via PM's) playing the same instrument I do..mostly for just some discussion of the instruments they play. And while that is happening..some have given me pointers that enable me to improve myself. Thank you Wade!! Having never really played professionally..when I first started here...I felt like I needed to be the "star" of the track...did not have a clue as how to remix my tracks, etc etc. Since..I have (I hope)... improved my mixing skills..feel (and tend to play as/like more of a "team" member..and have taken the tips and criticism(tactfully said) I've received from others as positive input on my negative playing skills. Can't say how other's would react if you reached out to them for advice...but I'd be willing to gamble a couple cold beers they would give you some great, positive tips.

I believe we all here are blessed to be sharing with such wonderful... A. People..and B. Musicians.

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